Category: the Rant Board
I think one of the things that annoy me so much, are the things people say purely because you're blind, so they think you're automatically interested in other people/relatives that a complete stranger may know just because they are blind.
Personally, I don't care if you've got a mother, sister, 2nd cousin twice removed, dog, cat, flee with sight problems, it doesn't interest me, and your claim to being all educated about blindness due to your aquaintence with the above is given no more validity by me than it would have if you hadn't told me.
It's not like I say to people 'wow, you're sighted eh? amazing, my whole family is sighted, therefore I know all about it.'
unless I'm being seriously sarcastic to people who are being annoying.
Do sighted people talk about sight all the time? no. so why would I be interested in having a conversation with a total stranger about their old blind mother. There are big differences between your old blind relative and myself. I am young and probably have nothing at all in common with them apart from the fact that I can't see, and I probably deal with my loss of sight much differently considering I am young and have no other mobility issues and that I've only ever had what I have.
I, just, don't, care.
I do not care in the slightest. It's like when total strangers stop and ask you how you are. all they are expecting is the age old 'fine thanks' or some other 2 word varient. they are not expecting you to give a run down of your personal problems, and they aren't in fact interested in how you are at all.
the other thing i am manifestly not interested in is the music or any other form of art by other blind people. It's not like I go 'oh my god, he/she's blind so I must listen and worship their music/book because I'm blind too!'
I know stevie wonder and ray charles are blind, and I don't care. I dislike their music and that's the end of it and i'm not going to spend time listening to it just because they've got the slightest thing in common with me!
I don't care.....
I tend to agree. And these people usually get all arrogant about the fact that they have a blind relative. And then if you do end up meeting this person you discover that you have little to nothing in common. THis happened to me a few months ago, and while she wasn't a relative of anyone she was another patient of my mother's counselor. This counselor thought it would be good for Anette and I to meet simply because we're both blind and frustrated with the system. Well first off she was at least fifteen years my senior, not that there was anything wrong with that in and of itself. The problem was that she was probably what they had in mind when they coined the term Jaded. And while I'll freely admit that I have little faith or interest in organizations for and of the blind, neither do I believe as she does that they're in place specifically to keep us out of meaningful jobs. I may not have much faith in them but I don't go that far. But she had this philosophy of don't even bother trying to better your life because A. the rest of the world's going to get in your way on purpose and B. the world's going to end anyway so there's no point. So needless to say everytime I hear the "I've got a relative or a friend who's blind" bit I'm probably going to become extremely wary.
i dont care if you tell me that you know blind people that can do very well in sport or in music.
i dont care if you think i'm performing well regardless of my blindness.
i'm just surviving, like billions of sighted people will.
i don't care if you admire my level of independent and mobility.
i don't care if you think by me going to university means i'm everything, because, i'm just, who i am, like many millions of others.
stop being obsess by me, or telling me how much you proud of someone like me.
i dont know you, and i dont want to know why either
actually that's another good point. sighties will often go on about the paraolympics and so on to me, as if it's so much more important to me than the normal ones. and it isn't. sporting events don't play a big role in my life, but I'm just as proud of the able body people who bring home lots of medals and achievements as I am of the disabled ones. no more, no less.
Absolutely agree with both your posts, Loui. Couldn't have said it better myself. I really want to come out and say all that stuff to someone when they go on about their blind relative or acquaintance, but I generally don't. And thank God, an other person who doesn't like Stevie Wonder or Ray Charles. I personally can't stand either of their music, and they shamelessly exploited their blindness as a marketing strategy. I have no respect for that at all. And then you get dudes like wonder who have all the blindisms out there, making us all look like idiots. Ahh, the joy!
It's interesting, being on the other side of the coin, though. I have a friend who I would have given more credit to than this, but here it is. My friend Kris is a driver and sometimes reader for myself and a couple other blind friends. We've done our best to educate her, and I think, for the most part, we have. However, the other day while at her Mom's church, Kris met this elderly blind lady who had lost her vision about two years ago. This woman has made herself a near hermit. She happened to come with her daughter to whatever church event this was. So then Kris starts basically lecturing her about how she can do so much more, how she should be able to go out and do all these things me and my blind friends do, etc. I kind of feel bad for this old lady. Yes, I'm sure she could be much more independent than she is now, and I hope she could be taught that blindness is not the end of the world. But to expect her to have the same attitude and independence level as myself and my friends, who are young, and have been blind our entire lives is completely unrealistic. I basically got on Kris's case for doing that, and for comparing us. It was just odd, being that anonymous blind acquaintance that time.
It's just something some people do. In their minds, what connects you to the people they know is your visual impairment but this doesn't just happen with disabilities too - it happens with other interests such as football.
There aren't many Birmingham City fans where I am but let's say a neighbour of mine met a Birmingham City fan and happened to have a cousin who supports Birmingham City. She may say to the person she's just met: "I have a cousin who supports Birmingham City". The thing that connects the two people in her mind is their support of Birmingham City. I can't think of any reason to be annoyed by somebody comparing people they've met.
I don't like famous blind people just because they're blind. I judge them by the same criteria I judge everybody else. If somebody knows of a blind singer and meets me, the person may think I am similar to the blind singer because both of us are blind. The person may think I am inspired by the singer because he's a successful blind person. Though I am not, there are people who are inspired by people who are similar to them. Some African people for example, look up to African footballers and want the success their favourite black footballers enjoy.
Though I don't encourage people to make assumptions about people, I accept that they will. Some people may think I want to be a politician because David Blunket was a politician. They're not causing me any harm or inconvenience by having those thoughts, and ...
At least they're not comparing me to the Yorkshire Ripper!
Wow. That's another thing I've sometimes encountered. And a lot of people find it surprising that I don't have all that many blind friends, much less any in my immediate area since of the only three blind people I've em from this area one is no longer here as far as I know, the second is that lady I mentioned earlier who thinks I should be a hermit and the third is a girl I've known practically since I moved out here who's one of those that seem to feel her blindness makes her the next thing to royalty and would happily sue anyone who got in her way. And while I'm not that easy of a hater I hate people like that with a passion. These are the sorts of people who'll demand discounts at every store or public place they come to based on the fact that they're blind. And while I'll freely admit that I'll take advantage of such a discount sometimes if it's offered as standard policy but I wouldn't go around demanding them, especially not when the full price was still reasonable.
the thing is, is that most people would assume that it's offenseve to someone if you were perhaps to say, 'oh, your black, I have a black friend, you two should get together.'
we did away with segrigation in the western world years ago, so there's no reason why we should propose it to other people.
it's more likely, and everyone should know this, that people are going to get on with one another because they have the same interests, do the same things, listen to the same music, watch the same tv shows. What possible interests could I share with an extremely elderly blind lady? whenever I go into the eye hospital, I meet a lot of them, and aside from a few very alternative people, I've never gotten along with them, I'd much rather listen to music than their complaining and their talk.
but for some silly reason people just don't seem to understand that.
and SD I totally agree with you on your post. I hate people who market themselves on their blindness. it pisses me off no end and it's a thing that I point out whenever anyone mentions a blind musician to me like stevie wonder.
and I can understand why your friend did that, and if the person had been younger and more mobile, i would have totally respected her for doing it.
Another thing is that people who have friends that are losing their sight or will in the enar future seem to expect the rest of us to act as support pillars. I mean don't get me wrong I'm happy to offer any advice I can but people don't often realize that there's a huge difference between a person who recently went blind or is going blind and one who like me has been blind their whole life. We don't actually know what they're going through since we've never had sight to lose or if we did it was for such a brief time that we have no memory of it. My mother tells me that I used to be able to tell the different colored lights on a Christmas tree but I don't remember it. And then you meet this stranger who's losing their sight and a fair number of them expect you to immediately be their support pillar. I mean the best you can do is assure them that blindness isn't the end of the world and that there are ways of doing just about everything a sighted person can do except for driving. I have a close friend Tennille whom I've known for close to four years and I just found out she has Macular Degeneration. She's been texting me asking for advice, but she's scared to death since she has four kids to take care of. But generally I'm exremely wary of meeting people like that because they so often assume I know just what they're experiencing. I may know in a general sort of way but not specifics.
You know what's really funny? I went to camp once, and there was one other blind person there, a guy, and someone told me we would be good together because we were both blind. Wow. Okay, so that means that if I meet a sighted person on the street, I should set them up with another random person just because they're sighted?
I don't really get annoyed by such people, but it's really not my idea of a good conversation, and I'll definitely try everything I can to avoid getting into such conversations. I'm really not a big fan of Stevy Wonder or Ray Charles either, but if I was, it would be because of their singing, not their blindness.
When I was at Chriss Cole Rehab for the blind, we had this pointless group therapy they called seminar. There I got scolded for not being empathetic towards the ones who were losing their sight and who made up the majority of the group. But how could I? I can't imagine what it's like to see, so how could I appreciate the loss? I was happy to offer practical support, such as help with Braille after hours, but I could not emote with them.
Nobody's ever tried to put me together with some other random person because they were blind, but I've had people casually mention they had a blind relative or something. I think that's their attempt at making conversation or trying to prove they identify with you in some remote way. But yeah, I never understood this bit about expecting two random blind people to just get along merely because they both happen to be blind. People forget to take into account things like personal tastes, personality, world view as in conservative or liberal or whatever, religious or not, and so forth.
I totally agree with all of this and another thing is people being so inspired by you...okay I'm so amazing because I remember the last five digits of my social and the sighted folks can't so?
What are you trying to say? Just because they can't remember there's don't mean I have to be just like them. Another thing that came up is when your talking to someone on the phone and they say "You didn't sound blind"
First of all how the hell can I sound blind? And if I can please let me know how...just these people.
lol
Know what's funny? I heard of Stevy Wonder and came a cross some of his songs and I bet you 100% I can't sing not one.
I don't even own any. his voice is nothing special to me at all.
I had someone tell me once 'at our church, we have people like you',
and I said, 'what, people who are female? people with red hair? short people? I'm sorry, I don't follow'.
I actually find sarcasm to be really effective sometimes in making people see exactly what they are saying and how silly it is, but i'm careful to whom I use it on.
I had a total random come up to me once on the train and tell me his whole sad story about losing his sight and all that. and he asked me if he should kill himself....
I wanted to say yes, the world would be better off, but I told him that with that atitude he'd be better off talking to a councilor rather than someone who can't identify with him.
Hahahaha. Yes, Loui, sarcasm can be a beautiful thing, but you're right, you have to be careful with it. Like you, I'd have been tempted to tell the guy on the train to go for it, but I wouldn't have really done it, either.
Bryan, those of us who have been blind all our lives can't really appreciate the loss a newly blinded individual is going through. But we can at least recommend resources for them, if they're open to that kind of thing.
I find people who expect the world to cater to them because of their blindness, such as what is described in post 7, to be extremely annoying and embarrassing. I know someone who expects discounts like that and it's embarrassing to be around her when she does that. And, I have also experienced the "you should date this guy. he's blind like you." ugh! I've also gotten "Do you know this person? he/she's blind." It's as if sighted people expect all blind people to be friends with each other and like they expect us to travel in packs or something. I do the best I can to educate by example: doing things as independently as possible, knowing when and how to ask for help, and trying to be a good role model. I realize I might be the only blind person some sighted people might encounter, and if they're gonna base their impressions of all blind people on me, I'd like to leave a positive impression.
I haven't had too many people do this to me but it generally doesn't bother me if someone mentions a blind relative or friend etc. I once had a counselor from the Comission who introduced me to a client because she was blind. That one didn't work out too well, but earlier, when another did the same thing, we became friends immediately. Hell, we're still friends ten years later. I think it would be odd if people assumed that I like blind celebrities just because of their blindness. I've had people try that with Greek singers etc. and though I was impressed that these people knew of them, I can't say that I'd automatically like a singer etc. just because he/she was Greek or blind for that matter. I've never had anyone who was losing his/her sight try to ask me for advice, but I completely agree with you guys that this can be very uncomfortable. As others have stated, I've been blind since I was two-months-old (so practically all my life) and don't remember seeing. So while I could sympathise I really can't offer them any more than a sighted person can in that department. They might actually be able to offer more sympathy because they know both sides of the coin whereas I only know blindness, so naturally, I'll think that it's easy or at least not a huge shock etc. to live this way.
I'm the type to say what I feel 99% of the time. So if I wanted to be sarcastic with someone, I would, except in a work situation or when talking with an authority figure or someone whom I deeply respected. That said, I'm not generally known for sarcasm, preferring bluntness. As for suicide, I'm the wrong person to ask, unless you're a dear friend, though I'd still respect your wishes in the end. If you want to do it, do it. It's no skin off my teeth and if you find life that horribly unbarable, let someone else take your space in the grand scheme of things and save us money. Plus, it's not my life and, so long as they're not harming anyone else, I feel that it's not my place to stop people from living their life as they wish or from ending it. So my answer to that man would've been that I personally don't know what it's like to be in his situation, but that this is nothing to take lightly and perhaps, it might be a good idea to really think on it, write the pros and cons of everything out, talk to other people who have been blind for awhile etc. And then, if he still felt like killing himself, at least he'd be making an informed decision and not one based on raw emotion and on being overwhelmed.
No one's ever suggested that I date someone because he was blind and I find it a very strange idea. If I happened to seriously fall in love with a blind man, fine. But my preference is for a sighted one and thankfully, I lucked out there. I've gotten the "do you know him/her" from sighted and blind people and could never figure that one out. They think I know someone just because he/she is in my state or just because he/she is blind. Now if the person is Greek and in my area, the odds are much better that I'd know him/her because I make it my business to meet and greet the local Hellenic community when I can.
I've never heard of using blindness for discounts but I do sometimes use it to get to the front of the line if it's a very long line, especially if I'm with Grandma, who can't stand for long periods of time. We also use the handicapped parking, not all the time, but if the regular one is too far from the building. I personally don't mind the walk but Mom's got a heart condition and certain things, like hills etc. cause her trouble and Joanie's leg is messed up now.
I think that's a great idea about leaving a positive impression on those whom you meet. But with me, it's never with the thought of being the only blind person that someone might encounter. I just want them to have a good impression of me in general. I don't see myself as being a representative of the blind.
Lol, the second last post just reminded me...
I used to catch taxies a lot when I first moved into this area and because in the hot summer it's not nice to walk in the middle of the day, and I did live about 30 mins from the station or shopping centre, so if I was in a hurry or had shopping I had to.
when I first started catching taxies here, they all used to think that I was some other blind woman. but get this, at the time, I was 17, going to school, and this other woman was twice my age!
it's like, all people see is the blindness and nothing else.
Well that's the whole point Alicia. You might be able to point newly-blinded or soon-to-be blind people in the right direction for resources and you may be able to sympathize to some degree but you can't empathize, at least not sincerely. Because someone like you or I who's been blind our whole life has no idea what it was like to see so has no real concept of what was lost. THe other one that's hard to explain, especially if like me you have light perception, you get the question of what it's like to be in the dark all the time. Well for a truly blind person who doesn't even have the light perception (I know a few although I really don't know how common cases like that actually are), there really isn't even any darkness because for them there's nothing to compare it to. It's the same situation with newly blind people versus those who've lived with it their whole lives. Again, nothing to compare it to so you can't really empathize. Sure you can offer practical support such as help with braille or pointing them towards helpful resources but that's really all you can do.
Thank you. Empathise was the word I was seeking. And I'm one of those without light perception so when someone talks about light or colour to me, I have no real idea of what they mean other than what I've heard i.e. the sky is usually blue, the sun is yellow, milk is white etc.
to those who seem to think empathizing isn't meaningful, I disagree completely. sometimes, all people need is to know someone cares/can put themselves in their shoes, even if only a little. that's what empathizing is, after all: the ability to put oneself in others shoes, so to speak.
Sorry, but I can't. It's not that I don't think it would be meaningful, it's that sight is completely outside my experience, and therefore I can't put myself in their shoes, even a little.
I don't know what having sight is like either, but that doesn't mean I can't at least think about how certain things would be and try to imagine what I'd do in certain situations to help someone.
Sure, I can think about what sight might be, and I come up with... a BLANK.
I saw nothing, and therefore when they cried I felt nothing. However, as I said before, I was more than willing to help with practical things, so what's wrong with that? There's definately a need for acquisition of practical life skills at a rehab center for the blind, and it's the only way I know how to offer help.
I guess I kinda empathize, at least sympathize. I certainly help them out if I know them, I haven't had sight and then had it taken away. Also I had one tell me she had experiences where she saw things that weren't there / misjudged distances. but here's the clincher: To her it *looked* like it had used to when she could see. So a wall looked 20 feet away, but on a given day she couldn't trust that because she'd run into it. Before that, all I'd thought was it would be very very difficult, but after that, all I can say is ... wow! Can you imagine your radar sense, or 'echo location' basically lying to you? I can only think of one such instance of that, and that involves certain substances ... but for her it was no good trip for sure! Imagine walking past a wall, and your bat sense tells you its ten feet away then slam! you smack it! Wouldn't that suck? That's what she had. So frankly I was more than willing to help her out and still would for anyone I knew who was losing sight. It's not like things are going dimmer: Think of your bat radar or 'echo locator' or whatever you wish to call it, think of that being way way off, and I don't mean fuzzed up like when you have a sinus infection. Or imagine your zipping along and the cane is letting you know it's concrete, but since it fooled you you step off a curb.
Imagine doing certain substances once, but without the enjoyment or fun, and you can never come down, it only gets worse. Kinda like Sid Barret I guess, except as I said, without the fun. At least that's the best I came to understand it only she didn't do nothin'.
add to this that instead of being like a trip or a hallucination where you usually know or sorta know that's what you're doing, to her it was a real illusion: she quite literally would see a table right there, go to set something on it, and it would drop .
No matter what tomfoolery I've done in my day, my echo locator has never failed me like that! So to me at least, anyone losing their sight that I know is gonna get all the help I can give 'em.
Agreed with Voyager. While I could feel for their loss in that I could imagine that this is something horrible, I think I'd be able to empathise more with someone who was going deaf because I can hear. So if they talk about not being able to hear music or being frustrated because they can't hear over the dinner table, I can have an idea of what they're losing. If someone says to me that they can't read print, see colour etc, I could understand it in that I can't do these things either, but if they really start getting into visual things like art or facial expressions etc. I'd get totally lost. I think we're confusing caring about someone's situation with actually being able to fully understand it.
Wow! LeoGuardian, I never thought of it that way. I get upset if someone lies to me, but at least I can trust myself and the senses I have. But walls that come out of nowhere and tables that vanish into thin air? That's wild! I wouldn't want to go out either.
Yeah, I'll say. That's crazy! I never knew that these things happen. Is it like fantom sight or do these things really exist only much closer or father than they would appear to her eyes?
From what I understood the distance and depth gets messed up. That's very different in sensation from things just becoming fuzzy or unclear.
Imagine you were wearing a pair of boots, you had a serious sinus infection and a pair of ear plugs. You'd be stumbling around, and I think that's how i used to perceive their predicament.
But that's not how it is. Imagine instead that as you walk along, you hear the fence off to your left what sounds like a few feet, and really just yesterday or an hour ago it was. Now you slam straight into it, but you didn't feel fuzzy or sinusy or anything, you *felt* / *heard* like your bat sense was giving you good feedback.
And then you step off a curb because when you put your cane there it really felt like hard sidewalk cement, no drop-off. Then you end up stepping into a gas station parking lot because the blacktop feels like sidewalk, and your echo locator makes you feel like the wall is there. But really it's empty space with cars in it.
Not all vision loss is like this but apparently a lot is. This was an eye opener to me, as I'd only thought of the traumatic thing for them where they lose some or all their sight and are just blind.
post 19: you remind me of something that keep happen to me when i was at both junior and sinior high school.
most of the teachers confuse between me and another blind student, my sinior at school. they go as far as calling me her name, or keep thinking me and her have some sort of close relations. just because we are both have chinese blood, we both long hair, have similar hight and size, we dont look anyware likek sisters at all. and by the way, she left school a year before me, so search me when they think we are the same person.
for those who own a guidedog, surely you can sympathise me with this...
i dont care if my dog is beautiful, or she's thin, she's a working dog.
i also dont care how lovely she is, or how well trained she is, cause that part of her job discription.
I couldn't ever relate to someone losing their sight. It's not something I've ever done, so it's not something I could ever have empathy for someone for.
not to mention that I myself am a very private person. If I know people I don't mind talking with them about stuff, but I dislike intensely people just coming up to me and asking me this personal stuff. I feel very uncomfortable talking to strangers about certain things.
I knew a girl once who had recently lost her sight, and she sat around all day, crying and whining about how much her life sucked. We weren't best friends, but close acquaintances. When she started whining to me, I said: "I'm very sorry for your loss, and I can imagine the change will definitely be difficult to get used to, but my best advice to you would be to stop complaining, take it for what it's worth, and move on with your life". I didn't mean to be harsh or anything, and I'm sure it was hard for her, but you're certainly not going to get anywhere sitting around and complaining all day. Life doesn't wait for those who mourn, as much as I wish it would. So, I can't empathize with those who have lost their sight later in life, because I've never been there, but I can sympathize with them.
Exactly. It's easier to sympathize but it's harder to empathize because folks like us have never had sight to lose. The only thing I might possibly be able to copare it to would be the sensory overload we might experience if we were to suddenly have sight. Which is another thing a lot of people don't understand but that's another story entirely.
by the way, I should just point out, that I'm not so much complaining, and I think a lot of us aren't here, but the thing I like about a site like this, is that it gives us all a chance to talk about the things that happen to us which are annoying or unwanted, to say things that we couldn't honestly say to the people who say or do these things.
another typical reaction I receive from people is total shock that I don't live with my parents. actually lots of people are shocked that I even have a social life at all, they don't expect me to go out to pubs and to drink or anything like that. god life would be boring if I was like they thought I was....
same with me. i have people assuming i live with my family, once i told them that i'm actually living by myself, and i'm in Australia all alone they got shock, and treated me like as if i'm some sort of being, or something extronarry. but the truth is i'm just nothing but an ordinary human, that live out of house, and find my own future and career parth.
agree with the whole private thing, i'm in general a very private person, unless to less than a hand full of close friends. its anoy me greatly when someone a stranger come to me and ask personal thing. i feel, if i want to tell, i will tell, if i dont want to tell, means i'm not comfortable on telling. there's no point for you keep asking, keep nagging. it goes the same with my dog. she's my guidedog, is part of me, therefore leave us alone.
i have no problem with people that losing sight, i know and understand its a long way for some to get out of that, some might not able to get out of the fact at all as to they now are blind. but, sitting there and morn about it doesn't help the situation either.
Bryan, Voyager, and others: I do sympathize with those grieving the loss of their vision. I can't truly understand it, but I have seen several cry when talking about it, and I do feel compassion when I see that kind of grief. Just because I can't understand it doesn't mean I can't have compassion for them, and what they're going through. The grieving process takes time, for any situation. It doesn't happen overnight. I do my best to be patient with people who are adjusting, and if I can tell they're really trying, even if it takes them awhile to get things, I can be extremely patient. It's those people who don't even want to try to learn the skills of independence that drive me absolutely batty.
Yes, phantom vision does indeed happen. I've heard it happening to people as their vision is in the process of declining. I also know it happens to those who have some vision, and go to a Center that has a sleepshade policy. And no, I don't want to get into the whole sleepshade debate on this topic. There are other ones for that. But I remember a situation where a friend of mine at the CCB swore to God she could see me as we stood there and talked to each other, even though her shades were on securely. She was just so used to seeing me, to seeing things, that her mind would see them, even though her eyes could not. I've been told that people who are losing their hearing, or who have a hearing loss, have the same problem: phantom hearing.
Yes Loui, people expect me to live with my parents, or some type of guardian, or at the least, a sighted roommate. They get shocked when they learn that I have lived alone for a long time, or that when I have lived with someone, that someone has also been blind.
Yes, it is good to have a place where we can talk about this kind of thing. Anyone who reads this might take us for bitter, but I think having such a place to vent actually keeps us from being that way.
I think there was more I meant to respond to, but since I can't think of it, I'm out of here for now.
And since so many people expect me to live with someone, they also seem to think that this someone's soul purpose in life is to take care of me. whenever I ask these kinds of people for help filling out a form, or to please send me an email instead of snail mail, they ask, "Don't you have someone at home to do it for you?" To this I have two responses: I will either say, "I have my guide dog, but the school forgot to teach him to read and write," or "Last I checked there wasn't anyone else living at my place. Of course since I'm blind they could be hiding, even in an efficiency. When I go home, I'll be sure to check under the bed and in the closets."
Alicia, thank you for saying what I was trying to get across in earlier posts. *smiles*.
Oh I'm not saying have no compassion. The point I'm trying to make is just that a lot of sighted people or even people who are losing or will lose their sight often expect those of us who've never had it to completely understand what they're going through. That's all I was trying to say. They don't always seem to grasp the fact that a person who never had sight isn't likely to have any concept of wat the other person is losing.
You all are right in that this is sort of a coming out site, no offense to gay folk but the experience may be called somewhat similar. Things can be hashed out on here, and yes the back and forth can prove enlightening. Hell that's what forums do on the internet. No matter who you are, if there aren't many of you in the population at large, these types of forums are just a concentrated effort where stuf gets worked out.
Alicia I had no idea there was a word for what she's dealing with. Don't think she did either. But knowing others have seen it certainly helps.
I just like the fact that there is a place on the internet where I can say all the things I don't say to most sighted people who I am confronted with. I try to present to them the best possible picture of course, but often it annoys me when they just don't get it.
and it's also good to know other people have the same experience, and it's good to laugh about it.
Right, Swiss. I remember laughing very hard reading one of the old boards about this kind of stuff. Some people on here have some great stories. I would like it if they were published in a book somewhere.
Great idea about the book. I honestly can't understand why so many of you hold back with most sighted people if your views are that strong. I say it's better to get them out in most cases.
Ah, the bit about *somebody* being there at home to help us with assorted things. This is where I came up with the idea of the Somebody Tree. Many people wish for a money tree out back, so you can also grow a Somebody Tree that grows sighted helpers. Just choose whichever type are in season at the moment and there's your help right there. LOL! We're lucky to have a couple of volunteers to help with mail and forms and such, because it's hard to find that sort of help voluntarily and who knows where one could go to get that sort of help in a paid capacity. I guess people think there are agencies one can go to where there are just vast pools of people just waiting to do that sort of thing.
Actually, in NJ, if you work or go to school, there is an organisation that will pay a sighted person to help you with daily things like shopping, reading mail, cleaning, labeling and organising things etc. It may even be from the state. I forget how many hours a week you get but a friend told me about it and it sounded like a great idea.
Not sure if this has been addressed, but does anyone else get tired of having their guide dog with them, and sitting down somewhere like a cab or something, and having to listen to a recital of every dog the person next to you has ever owned? Its like, you have a dog, you must suddenly care that I have owned fifteen dogs in my life, and can remember all their names, and will tell you about the time my beagle humped my teddy bear.
I took a cab the other day, and had to listen to the driver tell me about her weener dogs, and her friends weener dogs, and her friends friends weener dogs, and the entire medical history of said weener dogs, and her cats, and her rabbit. It makes no sense, why do I care if you own a dog, just because I happen to have a guide dog?
I understand people saying she's pretty or well behaved, but I don't care how many dogs you own.
I guess people, seeing that you have a dog, assume you must be interested, and want to make interesting conversation. Of course, I'd rather talk about other things, and I'll change the subject when possible, but I just tune out whatever I'm not interested in hearing, as long as the other person doesn't expect me to do any of the talking.
yes. post 47, you got that right. the most anoying thing is, you clearly show that you are ocupite with things, either on the computer, having mp3 player on, rushing somewhare, using your cell, or simply just not interested in such convo, they still want to tell you everything about it. is like, if they are the expert in your dog's life, or any dog's life, and know what on earth the best for the dog
Guys,there's a simple solution. Just tell them politely that you're not interested and make it a little more forceful if they still continue... There's no way that they could mistake that for something else.
Oh some people can, trust me. As for the expert thing that describes my mom's neighbor to a tea. I posted about this in another topic but a few weeks ago my folks' male Miniature Pinsher tried to hump their female Boxer, which he's done ever since my mom brought her home. Usually when Moe tries to hump her Kaley turns around and growls at him before walking away. THis last time she turned around presumably to warn him and in the process her canine teeth caught on his backside and she actuall did draw a little blod. Well Gerilynn deccided that Kaley was too aggressive a dog to live with my folks. She's only known her a very short time and hasn't had the change to get to know what a gentle, even-tempered dog Kaley is. If she'd really wanted to hurt Moe or our other dog Mickey they would probably be dead. Gerilynn didn't seem to realize that dogs can do things unintentionally and it doesn't make tem mean or aggressive. But because Kaley accidentally pulled Mickey's eye out while presumably trying to play with him (those big canines again), that automatically meant she wasn't a good dog. Thankfully my folks didn't see it that way once Mickey's vet had the chance to talk with them a bit. But it's the same sort of thing you're talking about with the guide dog and the passerby, taxi driver or whatever the case may be. They think they know everything and that you want to hear their knowledge...in its entirety.
Well, if someone's that forceful, skip the formalities and simply say "listen, I'm not interested in your stories. I came here for a taxi ride not a lecture." Normally, I wouldn't do it like that, but as you said, some people just don't get hints.
I agree with you there, Tiffanitsa.
Perhaps the dumbest question people ask me is, "Will he bite me?" Come on. He's obviously a service dog. I know these people are sighted and can see that he has a harness on. So do they think that a blind person would want to deal with a vicious dog? I would be putting myself at risk, and if he went around biting people all the time he wouldn't be allowed in public. If these people just stopped a minute and thought about the question, they'd know the answer.
I think that is what annoys me most about some people, is that they don't actually think about what they are saying at all.
it also the problem with people dont have common sense, or just, dont get it, or, wanna be an ignorence for their life. for example, calling "cane" as "stick", "guidedogs" as :"blindogs", i mean, for got sake, if the dog is blind, if it is a blinddog, how it can guide the master safely? and also the statement of, "oh no no no! your dog can't come in! he will eat all the things on the shell!"
No, the dumbest question I've ever gotten was this, and I'll even set up the scene for you. Picture this.
I'm walking into a store, I think it was target. I'm walking across the parking lot when a man pulls his car over and leaps out, stopping me by grabbing my shoulder. Now I'm already on edge because some guy just jumped out of his car and grabbed my shoulder, and I have no idea what his intentions are. However, my anger and fear immediately turned to annoyance when the man decided to say these stupidly ordered words, and I quote. "I know your not allowed to pet those dogs because they're working dogs and you can distract them from there job, but can I pet your dog?"
Now most of the time when people ask me questions, I'm polite when answering them, but sometimes politeness goes right out the window, like when someone asks a question so stupid that it makesyour brain stop and wonder how the hell that person manages to get dressed in the morning. However, because I was standing in front of his car at the time, and he still had ahold of my shoulder, I was polite and simply said "No", and wetn on about my business of, well, getting the hell away from him.
Um, WTF? I mean, OK, the question was silly because if he *knows* your dog is a working dog, then that should be all the fact he needs and he should not expect you to make an exception just because he wants you to. But to leap out of his car and physically hold you back because he wanted to pet your dog? Again, I say WTF? Did he think his day would be empty without getting some dog pets in?
Wow. I've never heard of that one before. Just...wow!
lol, if randoms want to pet dogs they should get their own....
I don't think I'd be that upset about someone wanting to pet my dog if I had one. I think the problem here was the leaping out of the car and grabbing you! If that happened to me, i would either have punched him or had the dog attack him, probably before he even asked the stupid question or at least punched him after it for scaring me half to death.
trust me tif, once you have thd go for a year or so, the last thing you want to hear is "can I pet your dog". Its even worse if they don't ask, its the most frustrating and annoying thing you can imagine, especially since, if you say no, you have to explain. so your either stuck there, letting them pet your dog and not being able to go anywhere, or your stuck there explaining why you won't let them pet your dog. And its even worse for the parents who encourage their small children to go over and pet the nice doggy. It makes one wonder what would happen if it was a police attack dog.
My point is though, at first its not that bad but after a little while, you get absolutely sick of it.
Exactly! And the ones who pet my dog and don't even say a single word to me are the worst. Usually I'm nice and explain that he's a working dog, but to the ones who fail to acknowledge my existance, I just say, "Get your hands off my dog."
And so you should. You can't just go over and pet any random dog without asking first. Most people don't have bad intentions, but you never know...
That reminds me of what happened not long after my friend Laura got home from GDB with her dog Aspen. She was on yer way somewhere and this lady walked up to her wanting to introduce her dog to Aspen. Problem was not only was Aspen in harness but they were also about to cross a busy street. But when Laura politely refused the woman got all bent out of shape about it. Some people are just like that. No matter how polite you are to them, if you refuse they get their undies all in a bunch about it and you're perceived as ungreatful. This can be inconvenient sometimes especially if you happen to cross paths with this individual on a regular basis.
What creepy, scary and strange people we have around these days...?
Now I know what to look forward to when and if I get a dog.
I dare! I care that Stieve Wonder has more money with me and won't share it with me. I mean we're blind right, so he should give me something? I care that people think I look good when I walk down the street, and I shaved this morning. I care that people think I am great. Now why don't they give this same praise to all others too? Lol. I have to agree with this board. I'm blind, not specially gifted.
Everyone does the best they can, and that is about it.
I know, when blind people don't look entirely presentable people pity us, but when sighted people don't look their best people judge them poorly.
I want to be judged poorly if I am not presentable. I don't want pity. because if I am not presentable it's my own fault. not anyone elses.
pity is one of the most useless emotions in the world.
The only people I pity are those who live their entire lives as a vegetable, and in pain to go along with it, but who are forced to stay alive. Other than that, you make the most of what you have, and if you don't, well, that's up to you, not anybody else.
To post 66, the situation described in the post before yours doesn't happen all the time. If the other person wanting to introduce their dog to yours gets their undies in a bunch, don't take it personally.
Well, if the person in question honestly doesn't know that you're not supposed to pet a working dog, then I guess I can understand. Still, it's just polite to ask permission before just randomly petting anybody's dog. I know someone who had a normally nice dog, although she can get snappy around people she doesn't know. Well, a lady just decided to touch the dog without permission, and the dog nipped at her hand. Well, the dog's owner is now facing a lawsute, which I hope the dog's owner wins. She tried to warn the lady that the dog might get snappy, and to please not pet her dog, but the lady went ahead anyway.
Of course, if the person in question is perfectly aware that you aren't supposed to pet a working dog, then there's really no excuse for getting upset.
I'm not saying it happens all the time but it does happen, and I imagine a fair number of the people involved actually should know better than to distract a working animal like that. I mean it would be one thing if you were waiting somewhere and knew you had a long wait ahead of you but when you're just about to cross a busy street you would think people would exercise common sense.
People don't. Most guides are beautiful and people can help themselves. iI never minded if mine was petted, but it does require you stop and take the time to let it happen, then you must talk to your dog and get her or him back to work is all it requires. If you have a good relationship with your dog no harm is done. Now for the lady that got bitten, well should have been her ass, but. Lol Seriously if you have a snappy dog working or not, you are required to muzzle it in public. That is the law unless you intend for it to bite.
Now if this were a todler I could understand. A little kid might want to play with my dog whether we're in the middle of a grocery store, crossing the street, or anywhere else. They are still learning the rules. I also give certain people I know a place on my "can pet list," because I know that these few will not be stupid and put my life at risk. Why would I want to put this kind of faith in someone I've never met? That could be potentially worse than letting some random grab my wallet.
and all of us look alike because we're blind. many years ago, i was visiting my terminally ill mom in the hospital. she was having asurgery done. i stepped in to the ladies' and lo and behold this lady comes up to me and hugs me. she says "hey barb how ya doing?" well my name isn't barb and the only woman i know who has that name, was a medical transcriber who worked at the hospital. she was 45 black and 200 pounds. at the time i was 25 white, I still am by the way, and weighed 100 pounds. I said to the woman, nice to meet you but i'm not barb. You know us blind folk all look alike." She cracked up and appologized.
At least she apologized. There are plenty of folks who wouldn't.
I am sorry, Turricane, but I laughed uproariously at this!
You know, that's happened to me before too, where someone saw me, and said something like....Wait, aren't you "so and so"? They were blind too, and there were here just a little while ago. I just politely say "no" and move on, but a lot of people seem surprised at that.
I know. Whenever i go on the bus, I sometimes get people (drivers in particular) say that they recognize me. Sometimes they're right and it's nice to see what's happened to them in the time between moves (which is usually when I don't see drivers much), but other times I get told that I've been seen here there and everywhere. Do I ahve a twin or something?
CM
wow, Lui, i know this is old now but I totally agree with this. I've often wondered why they do it. :(
Probably because whether maliciously or not they want to lump us all together into a single category. Probably just a comfort thing for a lot of them.
Back to the guide dog stories...Though not the board for it. LOL Anyways, I had a guide dog--beautiful, well-behaved, etc--but if offered food she would take it. Anyways, I was coming back from GEB, and my Mom and I stopped at a restaurant. We were sitting there at the table, and I was explaining to Mom the rules...And low and behold, here comes this waitress, who slips up to the table, and almost before my Mom could say a word, she knelt down and offered my girl a hamburger...She was in harness, the restaurant had it explained to them when we came in that she was a working dog...And still, she dared not only to give a working dog food, but human, cooked, greasy burger! I was very careful after that to make her lay where I could feel the movement--whether from the food offerer or her--or I made sure any sighted individual with me knew what to watch for. People shock me...some times good, and some times not so good!
How could anyone have the audacity to feed *your* dog without asking? Even if you did let people do it, who's to say the dog didn't have allergies at the very least!
Some people are just like that. They're the sort of people who'd probably approach you and start trying to help you walk whether you needed it or not. And more often than not they'd be extremely rude if you tried to correct them, regardless of how polite you were. They may be in the minority but unfortunately there are people like that out there.
So long as you remember that for them it's all about them, in that instance, and not what it is you need.
Someday we'll have virtual reality booths where they can simulate it all day long like the pervs do at the porn booths, and it'll have no effect on us: they're working it off while the rest of us carry on with life.
I certainly would have raised hell after an incident like that.
People simply need something to talk about. It is so damn sad.
That's why you have situations like what happened to my friend Laura after she brought her guide dog Aspen home from training. They were standing on a busy street corner preparing to cross when a lady with a pet dog came up to her and wanted to introduce the dogs. Laura said no, at least not right then, and the lady apparently got all bent out of shape. Sorry lady but this is a working animal and we're doing just that here. I'd have said no in her position as well, especially when I was about to make a busy street crossing.
I just had another guide dog incident at school on Tuesday morning. Normally, when someone likes my dog, they might say something like, "What a beautiful dog! Can I pet him?" I then thank them and explain that he is in harness and if they see him later without it on they may come up and pet him. However, that morning I was trying to get to class, and this moron started petting him without even saying a word to me. Once I found out, I told her very sarcastically, "I very much appreciate you acknoledging my existance. Thank you for taking the time to speak to me like a human being and complement me on what a great dog I have." My assistant said this girl looked mortified after I was done.
Reminds me of when I ended my first engagement three years ago. My x fiance showed up at my folks' place without even bothering to call ahead first, and all because she and her son had caught a humming bird in their apartment and her son begged her to take it to my folks' place to use their bird feeders. Problem is of course that those birds are extremely territorial, not to mention the fact that if that bird was in Jennifer's apartment it probably had a nest enarby and just got confused or something. Well not only did Jennifer not bother to call to find out if it would be ok before coming over, she also didn't bother to assist me when my folks' two dogs got out of the house during the exchange. They were small dogs and I was afraid they'd gotten out of the yard and gotten hit by cars. Well it took me fifteen minutes or so to track them both down and get them back inside the house (thankfully they didn't get out of the yard), after which I sent my x a text message and thanked her sarcastically for her lack of assistance with the situation. So I could definitely see myself reacting the same way to someone who petted my guide dog without permission if I had one.
To Voyager: Way to go! I bet she learned her lesson that day... lol Serves her right! To BryanP22: That woman sounds like an inconsiderate asshole. I could sort of understand it from a stranger but from someone who's supposed to be a serious partner? I would expect even a stranger to help you with the dogs, especially because their lives could have been in danger. You must've been angry and terrified at once. How did your parents take it?
I agree with you wholeheartedly, Swiss. I'd also like to add here that the people who really piss me off are all those who think because they've spent between four, and seven years in school obtaining a damn degree in *Rehab *Education, they know more about how we should live our lives, than we do! Blindness seems to be a form of studdy, like strange Phenomena, and the shit grew old long before Hellen Keller died!
Oh I couldn't agree more Kaskalora. My current rehab counselor seems to be one of those people. Oh she's a nice enough lady but I don't think she really gets it. She seems to think it's no big deal to educate, say, prospective employers, on what we can and can't do and she seems to expect me to lie during a job interview and say I can do something when I can't. And it's not good enough that I could tell the interviewer that even though I might not know how to do a iven job it doesn't mean I couldn't learn. But she doesn't seem to realize that some people just don't want and won't allow themselves to be educated. I've actually been to interviews where I seemed to be making progress with an interviewer only to find out later that it was all a lie. Oh they couldn't tell me that of course but you could tell because of the way they'd hem and haw about it. And yes, you can do that in a text Email LOL. And unfortunately where I live also isn't a good place for following up on a previous communication. You do that and you're perceived as a nuisance. And no, it's not just disabled people. I've had plenty of sighted people tell me of such experiences. And Tiffanitsa you're completely right about my x fiance. She probably didn't call and ask because she knew I'd say no. I need hardly point out that my mom was far from pleased that Jennifer had shown up without permission, let alone that the dogs could have gotten out of the yard and that Jennifer didn't help me get them back inside the house.
Ah yes, those so called rehab people. Horrible atitudes....not all of them of course, but many.
Oh I agree. Once in a while you get one who actually gets it and seems to care what you want. Oftentimes they're the blnd or partially sighted ones. But I couldn't help but notice that when you get one of those folks and you actually start to feel like you're making progress, sooner or later that person is either let go, reassigned to another department where they won't work with you anymore or just happens to get a better job offer. And they stick yu with someone whose idea of helping you look for a job is to print the classified adds. And while I like the woman thy chose to be my rehab counselor as a person I don't necessarily think she's the person for the job since while she's had some training she doesn't actually know what it's like to be in my shoes. I actually prefer the lady they chose for my job oach since while we've spent a lot of time on the internetlooking at posted jobs atleast we get out and actually go talk to people, and together. Not like the last woman I worked with who preferred to do all the work herself and to keep you more or less out of the loop in the process while lying to the rehab counselor about it. She had the nerve to tell my prior rehab counselor that I'd told her I was going to go back to college to study Computer Science the the very next semester. I hadn't made any plans to go back to school at that time, much less chosen a field of study. So it made me extremely angry that they'd lie, but it's just covering their asses to try to conceal the fact that they hadn't in fact been keeping in touch every two weeks. And if you, the actual client, called for an update they would give you the standard spiel about oh we'll call you when we have something to report. I need hardly point out that over the years I've gotten to the point where whenever my rehab counselor says something to me, regardless of how I might actually feel about the person, I tend to nod politely and inside think yeah right.
This is why I don't rely on these people anymore.
At school, my professors often do much more to help than the people in the Office for the Segregation of the Disabled, even cleaning up disasters which are left when I am not given service the office people said they would give. These professors are not rehab people, but they really care. One of them transcribed some of my physics texts for me and now spends a few hours a week tutoring me in physics. And he's not even a physics professor - it's not even his department. He's a retired electrical engineer, and he just realized that if no one took a real interest in seeing me succeed, I wasn't going to make it through that course. So he had the background knowledge about the course, he knew what technology I used, and he applied it. From this experience, I see two problems with rehab offices:
1. Many of their employees seem to be there just to earn a check.
2. The ones that do care often don't know how to help, because they aren't very familiar with the problem, and aren't often in touch with others who have already solved it. So the wheel gets reinvented again and again.
Oh I agree. And they seem to expect you to stick with the norm when it comes to assistive tech, regardless of what you might prefer. I myself was a staunch JFW user until about 2007 when I had problems with the current version at the time. It didn't work well with Adobe Reader and PDF documents. And while I'm sre I could perhaps have figured out a solution to the problem by changing a setting either in JAWS or Adobe, I didn't feel like hunting around in either program or calling up what FS laughingly calls its tech support. I never, and I mean never, had good experiences with them. Well I downloaded a demo of Window-Eyes only to discover that it worked flawlessly or very close to it, with adobe. Well the Commission wouldn't even assist partially with the purchase of Window-Eyes because in their view there wasn't enough of a difference between JFW and Window-Eyes. Thank god for the payment plans. And since I payed for it entirely with my own money th COmmission has no say in how I use the software. But they seemed to want me to go back to JFW when and if I get a job, which I would do ONLY as an absolute last resort, if the software they use at my job couldn't be made to work with Window-Eyes in any way. But it's like I'm an outsider because I don't use what everybody else uses.
That's because it's cheaper for them to buy a bunch of JAWS keys in bulk, I think.
Yep. I think you're right.
Yeh, freedom scientific is contracted with many government agencies to give mass volumes of keys at low low prices. Same with humanware for braille notes, and dell in many cases for laptops. And so on and so forth.
I totally understand. It's like some think all blind people are the same... no we all have different personalities... we're people hello?
Exactly. I've run into that one on more occasions than I care to count.
I agree, but they are just trying to be helpfull and assosciate your and my condition with others in their family, or maybe they just don't have anything else to say.
or maybe they are ignorant buggers.